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Mumble rap sucks

•Link to Reddit

I hate mumble rap. I can understand how people enjoy a lot of genres I'm not a fan of, but I don't understand how people can enjoy mumble rap. And I'm not talking about the beat, rather how people enjoy some dude rambling on about some stupid shit that no one understands anyways.

Great lyricism should always be important in hip hop, while with most mumble rap (all mumble rap I've heard atleast) talk about the same shit: drugs, money and hoes. They sound like they are trying to speak some foreign lanuage. Some mainstream mumblerappers also disrespect Hip-Hop legends and all the good values and elements of Hip-Hop. I think mumble rap shouldn't even be classified as Hip-Hop, but rather as a genre of it's own.

I'm interested to see if anyone is able to change my mind on this.

Thanks in advance.

  • 🤔Changed Author's View
    5 years ago

    I think the issue is not mumbling though. Can you really say that desiigner's panda is less deep than wiz khalifa's black & yellow or roll up? Or that anything by pitbull is actually hip hop? Or that anyone is less hip hop than kreayshawn?

    There has always been shitty pop rap, and there probably always will be. Within that, mumbling is a new trend, but mumbling doesn't make them bad, they're bad to start with.

    Before mumble rap, a couple years ago, it was autotune. That was a huge deal in hip hop. Autotune was cool for 2 minutes and then everyone was shitting on it just as hard as they are on mumble rap right now. It was the end of real music, etc. Most of those autotune rappers were making the same crappy unlyrical shit. Now I can't name any of those guys. don't even remember. and it was less than 10 years ago.

    The thing is, nowadays if you throw some autotune on a track, nobody cares. The fad is over, and decent rappers can get away with using a bit of it as a stylistic choice and nobody minds because we all know they have other talents and won't use this shit on every song, and the track is deeper than some fad.

    Mumble is going to be like that. 5-10 years from now, nobody will give a shit if you mumble your way through a verse. J Cole or Kendrick will drop a couple mumbley tracks on their 10th album that are kinda nostalgic of the mumbledays, but still full of lyricism, and we'll all love it.

    TL;DR: we hate mumble because it's the current fad among the shit rappers, who will always exist. In a few years good artists will be able to use a bit of mumble as a stylistic choice and it won't be a big deal.

    • 🎤Author
      5 years ago

      Interesting point.

    • 5 years ago

      no delta? 😟 even a small one? lol

    • 🎤Author
      5 years ago

      I got you covered, you deserve one. Δ

    • 5 years ago

      Hey i just watched this and thought of you.

      PS that delta you gave me didn't work you gotta use more text.

  • 🤔Changed Author's View
    5 years ago

    Great lyricism should always be important in hip hop, while with most mumble rap (all mumble rap I've heard atleast) talk about the same shit: drugs, money and hoes.

    And all those old songs about killing gangsters and cops? Drugs? I guess all those weed-loving rappers aren't real Hip-Hop either, since all they talk about is weed, weed, and weed.

    that no one understands anyways

    First off, somebody understands it. I can't, but there are people that do. Second, how many old rappers were shut down by Classic-Rock loving parents who belittled the genre by saying "I can't even understand what they're saying!"

    Straight up, you sound like the people who shit on Hip-Hop to begin with. You complain that you can't understand it and it's only about glorifying negative topics.

    I don't like mumble rap. Not my thing. Still not gonna call it trash. I'm just gonna go find some shit I do like.

    • 🎤Author
      5 years ago

      I definitely see your point, but I do disagree about what you said about killing gangsters and cops and drugs. I'm not trying to say no one rapped about that, and a lot of people did, but there was a lot more than that as well. Clever lyricism, well thought out punchlines, and far from all rap songs were hard core gangsta rap, while mumble rap as far as I know (and I might be wrong) stay in the same, well, topic.

      I'm also not saying that you cannot understand rappers at all, but I am saying that you cannot understand (of course there are exceptions) most of the mumble rappers. The reverb and autotune just makes it incredibly hard to even make out what they are trying to say. I believe some may understand it, but I doubt that most of the mumble rap fans know what they are rapping without learning the lyrics first.

      Thanks for your response though.

    • 5 years ago

      Gangster Rap wasn't all there was to Hip-Hop, but it was definitely a part of it. That's the argument I'm making here. Mumble Rap isn't all there is to Hip-Hop, but it is still definitely a part of it.

      You seem to be advocating that it isn't real hip-hop, that it needs its own genre. I'm arguing that it is one of many sub-genres that definitely can be called real Hip-Hop.

      I don't like it at all, but to suggest it isn't Hip-Hop would be to suggest that Gangster Rap wasn't real Hip-Hop either. That the only real Hip-Hop is meaningful and well-thought rhymes, when Hip-Hop has a place for the catchy, the dark, the simple, the funny; Hip-Hop can do it all.

      EDIT:

      but I doubt that most of the mumble rap fans know what they are rapping without learning the lyrics first.

      That's the case with A LOT of music! My Dad has SO many stories about how he and his friends would argue over the lyrics to Pink Floyd. Name 1 person who understood Eminem's Rap God the first time they heard it. Go listen to BYOB by System of a Down. Is that not real alternative music because nobody can understand it without learning the lyrics first?

      You're also just making a wild assumption. So what, all these people are buying music they don't even understand? Why? To what end? Obviously they understand it. You don't, I don't, but people do.

      To add to that, even if nobody understands it the first time through, isn't that a glowing recommendation of the music? Someone found that sound SO good that they felt the need to look up the lyrics. That sounds like a successful song to me.

      You have an opinion on Mumble Rap. You are entitled to it, and in fact, I would agree with you. The issue arises when you take that opinion and try to enforce it, saying Mumble Rap isn't real Hip-Hop and that it is objectively bad. Neither of those are things you or I can decide upon. It's not up to us.

    • 🎤Author
      5 years ago

      You have not fully changed my view, but you have partly. Therefor I award you a delta ∆.

      I still disagree that it should be a part of Hip-Hop. It should be a part of rap, but it should have it's own genre. I don't think that they should be able to compete with rappers who value lyricism and what in my opinion is "good" rap.

      When it comes to understanding the lyricism I agree. I am just assuming, and I apologize for that. I just want to point out that I understood the lyrics in BYOB (and most of rap god) without reading the lyrics many years ago, haha.

      I also think that some people listen to mumble rap without actually thinking about the lyrics, but rather see it as an instrument to the beat. Like Bo Burnham called it; "Beat Fetishism".

      And I agree that I might seem like I try to enforce my opinion on people, and I apologize for that.

      Thanks for your response.

  • 5 years ago

    I don't understand how people can enjoy mumble rap. And I'm not talking about the beat, rather how people enjoy some dude rambling on about some stupid shit that no one understands anyways.

    The first thing to understand is that lyricism isn't the primary draw for a lot of listeners. It's all about the sound for many people. Now you've already noted here that you get how people might like the beat, but don't understand why they'd want to listen to stupid lyrics on top of a good beat.

    What I think you may be missing is that a vocalist doesn't just contribute lyrics -- their voice is part of the sound. This is less obvious with rap than it is with traditional singing, but it's still there. To take a non-mumble example, Kendrick Lamar is known for using a variety of different vocal styles: nasal, growling, cracking, etc. Each of these contributes something different to the track.

    Now take this track by Young Thug. The lyrics are hard to understand, and I'm pretty sure they're dumb anyway. But that's not the point. The point is the sound of his voice and how that complements the instrumental. You may not like how it sounds -- it's definitely not for everyone -- but you have to admit that it would be a totally different song if you took the same instrumental and put a more traditional rapper like, say, Jay Z over it.

    • 🎤Author
      5 years ago

      I fully agree. The vocals are probably more of an instrument to the beat. I take back that I can't see how people enjoy mumble rap, I guess lyricism is so important to me that I sometimes forget that everyone has their own liking.

  • 5 years ago

    I always thought of mumble rap as the early Punk of hip hop. It's loud, it's about partying and doing drugs, it doesn't make much sense, and the fashion is WILD crazy.

    You gotta remember that it's hype music. It's not much different from the Crunk music of the 2000s. It's meant to be played, blasting from a big car or in a club or at a party.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QeI_aHM3Xuw

    A song like this isn't supposed to be that deep or meaningful. It's just a banger. And as you said, it should be a different genre? Well it mostly is. These guys aren't the same as Kendrick or Cole.

    • 🎤Author
      5 years ago

      I agree, while I myself also get hyped to some songs from the 90s, I fully agree. They are pretty good for hyping.

      They are still classified as Rap/Hip-Hop music though, and I think they should have their own genre rather than subgenre.

  • 5 years ago

    "Mumble Rap", or "Fast Rap", or just rap where the person is rapping way beyond the standard speed of normal speech is often considered more as a showing of talent via exhibition than it is to be taken via the "standard" criteria of well-made/performed rap music. Eminem's Rap God is arguably the most famous example of this; about 4 and a half minutes in (I'm on mobile so I can't link anything at the moment), you can see/hear him rapping at a point where the average person generally would find him unintelligible.

    That being said, he's not trying to show his lyrical talent as much as his physical talent, which is currently a large part of the "rap game", with artists like Bustah Rhymes, Busdriver, and Tech N9ne becoming quite famous for their abilities. If you're trying to get into the genre, Exhibition Rap is not a good place to start; its designed to be the metaphorical fentanyl to the "rap addict"; the next paradigm-shifting thing.

    • 🎤Author
      5 years ago

      I would rather say that mumble rap is when rappers don't care much about clear pronounciation rather than their speed.

    • 5 years ago

      That's fair, but I'm not sure at which point something is actually a stylistic vocal change; I think Kyle (look up "Girls, Girls, Girls" if you're not familiar with his work) is an example of someone who adjusts his voice intentionally to give off a different vibe than what would happen from his speaking voice; the former is more "Californian" in the way he enunciates, but I don't think that (for the lack of a better word) slurring makes his music worse. If anything, I'd argue it helps him reinforce what he's trying to sell as an image ("the cool guy").

      What I was trying to say earlier also is there's an inherent tradeoff in vocal clarity and speed; the faster you want to go, the harder it is to enunciate each word as it's own sound.

  • 5 years ago

    For me personally, the mumbling is more about the artists using their voice as more of an instrument that can synergize with a great beat. It's more about the cadences and rhythms of the mumble, rather than the lyricism. Just my 2 cents.

    • 🎤Author
      5 years ago

      I see your point.

      Thank you for your response.

  • 5 years ago

    Do you like listening to "fast rappers" like Tech n9ne? The same case could be made for them. That no one can understand what they're saying so it's trash.

    Perhaps to people who don't listen to rap, mumble rap can be hard to understand. I don't listen to much mumble rap but when a new Young Thug song comes out I'll check it and can make out most of it.

    I didn't want to bust out the whole "music is subjective hurr durr" but that's what it is. Some people prefer melody rather than lyricism. As long as it's not destroying "lyrical" rap (which it's not) there doesn't seem to be a problem.

    • 🎤Author
      5 years ago

      I don't listen to Tech N9ne or any "fast rappers", but I would'nt consider them trash as (as far as I know) they value lyricism. It can be as fast as they want for all I care.

  • 5 years ago

    Did you that most operas sing in Latin, and most people to listen to opera can't understand Latin. The human voice is just another instrument. You don't have to understand what they're saying to appreciate it.

    Great lyricism should always be important in hip hop

    Should it really? Always?

    • 5 years ago

      Considering how much of rap seems to be complete nonsense with words chosen not because they make any real sense, but purely because they rhyme, I really don't think rap/hip hop can really make a serious argument that "lyricism" has ever been paramount.

      Yes, it's important to some of them to say things that actually make sense, but in the vast majority of cases, the sound of the words is actually what they are aiming for, not the content.

      And, having just listened to several mumble rap songs for the first time, I have to say: some of them (i.e. the most famous ones that end up at the top of a youtube search) have successfully created lyrics which, though unintelligible, actually sound pretty cool.

      It might not have deep meaning, but lots of music doesn't have deep meaning. It's just meant to sound good, and trigger emotional responses based on the sound. It's primarily linguistic rhythm.

      Basically: rap is about using words as a music instrument. Anyone who thinks that "real rap" must only have words that make sense, as opposed to using voice as a musical instrument that sounds good doesn't seem, to me, to have been listening to the genre at all.

      • 🎤Author
        5 years ago

        Thank you for your response.

        First off, I never said "real rap" must ONLY have words that make sense, but I dislike it when lyrics makes absolutely no sense or looks like it was written in 5 minutes.

    • 5 years ago

      i have never even heard of mumble rap, can you link an example please.

      • 🎤Author
        5 years ago
      • 5 years ago

        i went to the doctor and he looked at my dick

        ok i was already laughing by this point, but i lost it. i think i have a new way to torture people , thank you !

    • 5 years ago

      Please give an example?

      • 🎤Author
        5 years ago

        There are several examples in this thread.

    • 5 years ago

      I think the context of when you're hearing it is a big part of the popularity of mumble rap tbh. Personally, when I'm at home or just hanging out, I prefer hip hop with more lyricism, or even R&B or Soul (where you can enjoy the artist's musicality through the singing talent, instrumentation, etc).

      On the other hand, when you're at a club/bar, people aren't really 'singing along' with the tracks as much as they're just trying to dance to something that's easy to dance to. 99% of mumble rap fills that niche pretty well, since as you mentioned, the beats are really catchy, and you don't need to understand what they're saying to dance to it.

      I guess this probably won't change your view that mumble rap sucks, but since lyricism is obviously an important aspect of your enjoying hip hop, it's hard to imagine that any argument will make you suddenly love it. Just trying to point out that even if it's not the genre for you, it still plays a pretty important role in the broader scope of modern hip hop.

      • 🎤Author
        5 years ago

        I fully understand your point, and I get what you mean. I personally, would still prefer catchy Hip-Hop songs with good lyricism, but hey, that's just me.

    • 5 years ago

      Great lyricism should always be important in hip hop

      No it shouldn't, and that's extremely subjective. With rappers like Young Thug (who I can only assume you're mainly addressing) the point of their music is anything BUT the actual lyrics. It carries the rest of the music with its other great aesthetic qualities. Namely, flow, the sound itself, silliness, etc.

      What you're arguing for is basically like complaining that a Jackson Pollock sucks because a photorealistic painting is much more realistic. Both have the same goals in the sense that they're art, they just do them in different ways. One is more abstract than the other and requires you to view it from a different perspective, if you go in with the same perspective for both obviously you are going to end up being disappointed with one or the other.

      • 5 years ago

        The thing with mumble rap and other mainstream rap is that no its not even trying to be lyrical. It has one goal: to bang in the club. Everyone can rap along cuz you don't need to actually know the words. It's kinda fun and just sorta works for the simple goal it's trying to achieve.

        Rap has been around for a while and its only a matter of time before people try to break rules and push boundaries, for better or worse. We still have our Kendricks, Danny's and Joey's. There's no use getting mad at mainstream hip hop, we are still in good hands and lyricism ain't dead

        • 🎤Author
          5 years ago

          I agree, but that still doens't change my view on whether its shit or not. I can fully understand how it can be fun to dance to in the club. And I'm also thankful for Joey, Kendrick and Cole. Extremely thankful.

      • 5 years ago

        Only example of what I think you mean by "mumble rap" that I fuck with is Future, so i'll explain why I like him in specific.

        A friend of mine says all the time that you could literally use a program to randomly generate words and then have future spit them over a trap beat and it'd sound good. Now thats obviously a bit much, but it relates to the point im about to make: I don't enjoy Future because of his lyrics almost ever, and I rarely fall in love with the instrumentals/beats of his music. Lyrics and beats aren't the only reason to like a rapper.

        The way he rides a fucking beat is awesome. His delivery and voice just sound so good on a track, part of why I enjoy his music so much is because it doesnt really matter what hes saying. I value lyricism probably more than any other aspect in a hip hop artist, and despite not being lyrical Future can still make music I enjoy.

        I literally dont give a fuck about what he's saying. He sounds good on a track, I like his flow, his voice, his delivery, and just his whole persona on general. Just the way he speaks can be mesmerizing. Something about Futures music just clicks for me, I can't really say one specific thing is why I enjoy it. I assume thats why fans of other "mumble rappers" enjoy their music too, it clicks for them. I wouldnt say Future is particularly impressive, he just knows what he does, is really fucking good at it, and does it better than anyone else.

        • 🎤Author
          5 years ago

          I respect that, and I can see the appeal to his music. I however don't really agree with what you're saying about his music (well, he might know what he's doing. I've got no clue.) but I'm happyfor you that you are enjoying his music.

      • 5 years ago

        In the immortal words of Jay-Z,

        Rap critics that say he's "Money Cash Hoes" I'm from the hood, stupid? What type of facts are those?

        • 5 years ago

          Who do you consider mumble rap? Give like 3-5 examples for me so I can find a good angle to attack this question.

          • 🎤Author
            5 years ago

            There are several tracks posted in this thread.

          • 5 years ago

            Not when I asked this 4 hours ago. All you had at that point was the Hopsin parody (which is ironically his best song). Would you count the Migos as mumble rap? What constitutes mumble rap exactly? I mean Desiigner and Yachty are trash but it's not because they're mumble rappers.

          • 🎤Author
            5 years ago

            I'm sorry I didn't post anything else, and I didn't mean directly that mumble rap was exactly like the parody. But there are tracks in this thread now.

          • 5 years ago

            Alright so I read around. Let's go with Thug and Future since they're the only non trash rappers mentioned here. Here's the second half of Thug's verse in the song Givenchy:

            Drugs don’t stop, you know I can’t stop

            Baby don’t press charges, she know that I’m on the block

            When she pull up, she can’t go back, she gon' stop

            She ain’t know what time it was 'til I bought her first clock

            Rolex, spend $1,000 on a flock, no Wacka

            And you know I’m comin’ back like Dem Boyz, no Shop

            Loading up a Glock, take shots

            I got Jays on a flava, flava watch

            Billidybop, pull up shootin' buck shots (TOP NOTCH!)

            Yeah, they watch me like a fuckin cable box

            Bitches wanna fuck me and they also on my top

            Mama told me neva give tops outside the shop

            Pull up on yo girl, I’m lurkin’ like a cop

            Pussy nigga play, I'ma BEAT them like a BOX

            Hey, I'm the President, baby, blacker BARACK!

            30’s on the Chevy, my nigga, plus it's a box

            You should know me and sharp shooters sponsored by FOX

            Split that money up in eight ways like I’m an octopus

            On the campus with lots of pounds, kicked outta COLLEGE!

            All I bleed is red but nigga, but I'm not stoppin' shit (red light)

            Pull up to the set and I come and pay all my homages

            Hoppin' out on Bleveland I pour up straight out the pharmacy

            Pussy nigga scared to say it, I got 'em hummin' shit

            Lil bitch, you know I’m really thuggin' like Bones & Harmony

            (Rich Gang) I can never... (be you)

            I’m an animal, you know I got stamina

            If a nigga ever got robbed, bitch I’m the manager

            And I got an African with weed over on Campbelton

            Lil momma don’t go, keep it stompin’, I want that cameltoe

            Pull up to the set with them sticks and have us an ammo show

            Lead through the front door with that tec, take it out the back door

            Bags in this bitch, so many bags like where the racks go?

            From a technical standpoint there's nothing wrong with this at all and I completely understood what he was saying when I first heard him and this is coming from someone that used to hate Thug (back before he got big - I live in Atlanta so I heard songs lie Live From The Tabernacle). For Future here's Ain't No Time which is pretty new and this is another artist I used to hate (I still can't listen to any early Future - basically anything before 2014ish is bad IMO):

            You slangin' that iron, you slangin' that iron, you toting that iron

            You pressin' the issue, you pushing the gas, you making 'em violate

            I'm dropping the top on that foreign, I zig and I zag I'm all on the grass

            I did what I had to pass, you niggas you better go back to your stash

            I did what I had to do, I ran in that bitch I didn't have a mask

            I did what I should have did, survive through the trenches and look like a man

            I sit at the throne, I sit at the throne, you niggas ain't nothing but some clones

            I sipping that Dom Perignon, when I'm at the store they ringing me up

            My bitch on her bitch, got her eatin' it up

            I done gained a little weight and I'm keeping it up

            Step in them Christians I done came out the mud

            I'm flexing on purpose when I'm in the club

            Again nothing technically bad here. And you can look up these songs. I'd think you'll understand the lyrics anyway. Now maybe you still won't like them but you have to be able to see why someone can see the value in a technically sound verse with a flow they personally like even if you don't like the flow. For example I don't like Rick Ross' BMF flow (which he's used since that song came out) but I don't think he sucks.

        • 5 years ago

          I think you, and most of the people in the thread are looking at this the wrong way. It's not for dumb people, it's not for high people, it's not the new wave of pop music. With the exception of future and one Migos song mumble rap is not very popular with the general public. The music is a rebellion. I'm not very articulate myself but Anthony Fantano has a video about this.

          • 5 years ago

            I've started to listen to and like to listen to reggae and I'd compare the two to being able to understand what they are saying the whole time. Everybody has tastes, art is art, blank canvas sells for millions of dollars as modern art and I don't get t but someone somewhere at least pretends to.

            • 5 years ago

              Rap, in general, even going back to the 80s and 90s where I think there was a bit more integrity, had garbage lyrics. I agree with OP.